How Health Care Reform Would Impact You

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Source:kokopinto
Health insurance premiums in the US have increased in cost by almost 100% since the year 2000, a growth rate three times larger than wage increases over the same period of time. At the same time, one out of every three Americans is uninsured, or underinsured. Moreover, health insurance premiums are more than double for Americans than they are for citizens of the second highest cost nation, Norway.
These daunting facts leave little doubt that health care costs in America have spun out of control and the financial health of each American, and the country as a whole, is dependent upon smart health care reform. What’s not as clear is the right way to go about it. Details on the health care legislation currently making the rounds are sparse and very fluid at this point, but we’ll try to dissect some of the basics and how the plan may impact you if it were to pass in its present form.
What are the basics of the Obama Administration’s health care reform legislation?
So far, this is what can be decoded from the constantly changing legislation.
- All Americans would be required to be covered by health care insurance – either through out-of-pocket or government subsidy.
- A new health care insurance exchange market would be created. You can think of this as a gigantic group plan, monitored by the government.
- You can keep your employer’s plan, if you’d like (and they decide not to drop their plan for the cheaper exchange).
- Insurance companies would be required to provide a basic level of insurance for everyone who signs up for the exchange. Premiums cannot be increased for those with pre-existing conditions.
When would the reform go into effect?
The Obama Administration had been leading a big push to get a health care reform bill passed quickly by the Senate. However, the details and resulting consequences of legislation of this impact have stamped out that possibility. On Thursday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) announced that the Senate will not vote on health care reform legislation by the August recess, saying that it is “better to have a product based on quality and thoughtfulness rather than try to jam something through,” as reported by the AP/Boston Globe.
Despite the delay, if the legislation were to pass later this year under the same timeline as proposed, it would go into effect in 2013.
Who stands to benefit the most from Obama’s health care reform?
It’s unclear how the bill will benefit the majority of Americans who already have employer sponsored health care plans at this point. In theory, premiums should be decreased because the insured are no longer footing the bill for the uninsured. The reform aims to immediately help:
- Those without any insurance.
- Those who have paid for expensive individual policies on their own.
- Employees of small businesses that have trouble affording the cost of joining a group plan.
- Low income Medicare participants who are left paying for whatever is not covered by Medicare for their medical bills and prescriptions.
Whether intended or not, the legislation could also mean more profits for insurance companies by making it a requirement for all Americans to purchase an insurance policy, be it by subsidy or out-of-pocket.
How much is this going to cost?
The legislation is expected to cost $1 trillion over 10 years. Obama insists that it would be revenue neutral, meaning that it would not be an expense added to the budget deficit.
Who is going to pay for it?
The entire tax burden is expected to be placed on the shoulder’s of the very wealthy. Originally, it was to come from a surtax on American households earning over $250,000 annually. However it was recently bumped to those earning over $350,000, and even more recently, those earning over $1 million.
What will happen to my doctor?
Nothing. You can still go to them, and they’ll still be living large in the wealthiest zip codes in your locale.
Who is opposing the present version of the legislation?
- Republicans: This goes without saying, right? Any new taxes on the wealthy or are sure to meet Republican opposition. This legislation is no different.
- Democrats: Wow, really? Yes. Some of the more liberal Democrats, led by Dennis Kucinich, have been pushing for the addition of a single payer option. The United States is currently the only high-income industrialized country in the world that does not have some version of a single payer, public health insurance. Single payer refers only to health insurance and payments for health service being funded by a single public fund. Kucinich and others want this option to be included in the legislation.
- The Obscenely Wealthy: More taxes means less luxury goods and $900 bottles of wine vs. $1,000. Can you blame them?
Where can I find out more?
The White House has created a public site dedicated to providing information and news on health care reform – at healthcarereform.gov.
For more of GE Miller’s writing, visit personal finance blog 20somethingfinance.com.
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1 2 Next »No good will come of this
“The Obscenely Wealthy: More taxes means less luxury goods and $900 bottles of wine vs. $1,000. Can you blame them?”
I love how people manage to abstract the “obscenely wealthy” into faceless demons who deserve nothing more than to be exploited. It is unthinkable to believe that they are real people who simply found a way to be successful (legitimately or not).
Here is an analogy to help understand this: Assume you were playing monopoly and were having the best game of your life. You were in complete control of the board and had no reason to worry about losing to any of your opponents. At that moment, one of your opponents complains that he is losing. The banker then proceeds to take half of the money you have earned and simply hands it over to the whining opponent, “so that he can have a fair chance at winning.” How would that make you feel?
Health care is expensive because of the 133,000 pages of regulations that the government has imposed on that market. It can cost over $200,000 just to insure one doctor against malpractice lawsuits that come from frivolous litigation and ridiculous payouts. No wonder those with low incomes can’t afford health care. I find it awfully convenient for the government to step in with a “solution” to the problem that they created.
Utopia is a fantasy that will never be achieved. Are there poor people in the country who have no insurance? Yes, will Obama’s legislation change that? No. It is part of life. There will always be poverty, crime, injustice and inequality. The best we can do is to let each man and woman pursue their idea of happiness and not force them down a path they don’t wish to travel.
Brilliantly put, sir. Correct to the highest degree.
“Utopia is a fantasy that will never be achieved… There will always be poverty, crime, injustice and inequality.” Giving up on the possibility of making life better is a pretty poor platform to preach from. Also, you’ve got a bit of hypocrisy in your argument that the rich aren’t faceless demons, but the members of the government are. Some members of the government are attempting to do there best to help their fellow man.
Also, the caveat on making a million “legitimately or not” is a sad attempt to address the innate realization that almost all people making over a million a year are tremendously lucky or have found ways of making their own luck by circumventing the ethics that others might be caught up in.
Your monopoly analogy seems to miss some important points. The analogy that seems more true to life to me is that a little over 300 million people are playing an unending game of monopoly every single day of their lives. Sadly, the 46 million players who are unlucky or just can’t figure out how to outplay their competitors, run the risk of paying for such with their lives. The top 1% of the players, the luckiest and perhaps best at the game (legitimately or not) could change the rules (and have in other countries where the game is played) to prevent the loss of lives and well being of the other unfortunate players.
It hardly seems to require much thought to find the kindness or at least sportsmanship to agree to the amended rules. As nice as a hot streak in a game of monopoly might be, it would be pretty hard to enjoy it if you had to face the opponents that were dying because we’re stuck on the idea that the rules need to stay the way that they are. I suppose the only other solution (legitimate or not) is to turn a blind eye.
It’s not a game.
Mint was a great blog until this partisan hack-job of an article made it on here.
“The Obscenely Wealthy: More taxes means less luxury goods and $900 bottles of wine vs. $1,000. Can you blame them?”
Yes, I can blame them. They don’t give a &*^(*& about luxury goods, they care about the fact that a federal government is unconstitutionally trying to take their money and give it to other people.
This healthcare plan is a direct insult to the founding of this country and Liberty in general. The only road this continuation of the socialization of America takes us down is one that leads to tyranny.
Healthcare is not right. It’s never been a right. It never will be a right. Services and commodities cannot be rights, ever.
Do you realize how Mint looks when it publishes this kind of communist drivel? And how nervous it makes me that I’m entrusting personal data to you?
Who’s opposed? Wow, you forgot a large group. How about hard-working Americans who really don’t want the government driving our medical care to the lowest common denominator. I’ve lived in countries where the government provides medical care. Quality suffers in this scenario.
nice post!
WTF!!!!!
this is chicken shit. the health care will end worst.
Sadly, it will NEVER happen. Too much profit at stake in the private sector.
RT
http://www.anon-web-tools.tk
and the original intent of the IRS was to only tax the extremely wealthy. how did that work out for everyone?
* Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
* Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
* Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
* Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
* Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
* Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
* Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
* Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
* Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
* Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
* Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
* Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
* Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
* Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
* Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
* Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
* Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
* Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
* Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
* Page 167: Any individual who doesnt’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
* Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
* Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
* Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
* Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
* Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
* Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
* Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
* Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
* Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
* Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
* Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
* Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
* Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
* Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
* Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
* Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
* Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
* Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
* Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
* Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
* Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
* Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
* Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
* Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
* Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
* Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
* Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
* Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
You can download the complete bill text [ http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf ]
Honestly, I don’t see how it can be viewed as fair if some tax burden is not placed on everyone to fund a universal health care option. While I understand that the wealthy have money to spare, such taxation is a punitive damage to their success on the part of the larger populace – i.e. it’s not encouraging the wealthy to continue in their success in America and/or to take it elsewhere. Likewise, when in American history have the people ever rewarded non-contribution as is being proposed here and now?! Maybe some think that such a view of fairness makes me a Republican – I hope there are other and more significant areas of debate that would define such a distinction.
There are three components that have significantly contributed to rising health care costs that are not being addressed by this new legislation:
1. Even if you have health care, it’s still an elective process. You have to choose to receive care; it can never be forced on you. Most Americans wait to see a doctor much too late, such that the cost of care resultant of undiagnosed conditions is significantly more expensive. This won’t change under the new plan.
2. Americans are unhealthy. We have a consumer culture built on unhealthy habits. Whether it be Wallstreet or McDonald’s, our culture has a premise of greedy consumption without thought to consequence. Short of using police and taxation policies to make people live healthier, general health is going to remain poor and care is going to remain high (unless this becomes a rationing criteria). Living habits between the USA and other high-income nations is stark in their contrast.
3. Americans are litigious. Health care providers deal with far too many frivolous law suits that stem mainly from complications that are more directly related to individuals not caring for themselves than any wrong doing on the part of the doctor. Given that there is no tort reform present in this legislation, that will not change, thus those costs will remain – and will likely begin to increase as new people are brought into a universal health care system.
The other thing I really don’t like about this legislation is that it places the government as the rationer of health care. The government decides what coverage a policy must have and, thus by extension, what procedures are available for you to elect. Granted, this is an improved situation for those people without health care, but for everyone else … well, it could be a bum deal and it places everyone at the mercy of the government (i.e. you can’t shop around anymore for the coverage you want). For all the valid concerns there have been raised about the loss of liberties the past 8 years, you would think this would give people – especially Democrats – more pause.
As to the numbers of who does not have health care, this article sites 1/3 of the population is uninsured or underinsured. The President the other day sited 45 million people are without insurance. I have heard it argued that he is including an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants (i.e. non-tax-paying individuals) in that figure. So depending on how you look at it, that’s roughly 10 to 15 percent of the US population without insurance. I still have not heard how many of those people have health care options they elect to not take (e.g. Waffle House employees). I don’t know what underinsured means, but with our public health system as it is, I imagine most Americans are pretty well covered, certainly by historic standards.
So, to me, it’s not about who has it or who doesn’t have it but how to drive down costs. Extending coverage to everyone that does not have insurance doesn’t seem like a plan to drive down costs. However, driving down costs under any system – private or public – opens up health care to more individuals as they can then afford it. It seems to me that this plan is treating the symptoms (not everyone can pay for health care) instead of the cause (costs are high, people are unhealthy)
The USA was founded on the principle that the populace’s then reigning government was too oppressive, and that people should be able to live largely free of government interference. It seems like we’re reversing course here by placing all our medical eggs into a government basket.
$900 bottles of wine? How about 900 employee companies instead of 1000 employee companies. Wealth envy much?
MINT, I thought you guys were above this level of propaganda!
No discussion of how (as always, despite best intentions) Medicare and Medicaid are already money-losing programs and no plan put forth yet shows how this will be any different
No discussion of the general reduction in the quality of care over time received in nations with nationalized health care systems
No discussion of how the people this hurts most are Small Business Owners who’s “techincal” income is $350,000 per year but whose family only sees about $75,000 of that.
No discussion of the jobs this will destroy in the private health care industry–not the wealthy but the call center employee of “Big Insurance, Inc.” who will lose their jobs when the government pushes their company to the brink.
No discussion of how NO government agency is self-sustaining and how this one proposes to be any different.
No discussion of the stories from other countries with nationalized health care and people being forced to come to the USA to get the treatment they need because they can’t get treatment at home.
It’s unfortunate enough that the government is trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes on all these issues. What’s worse is propaganda pieces like this–and the President’s night on ABC discussing this plan where not only was no one allowed to publicly debate him–no sponsor would even be given ad time should their views oppose the President! I’ve never been so horrified at the direction we’re going as a country as I was that night.
In response to:
“What will happen to my doctor?
Nothing. You can still go to them, and they’ll still be living large in the wealthiest zip codes in your locale.”
As they should be. Doctors work their asses off their whole life and are perhaps the most contributing members of society. Few people deserve to be there more then them.
You fail to mention actually SOLVING HEALTHCARE PROBLEMS. This is just about insurance, in practice a very minor part. For example, now that everyone has insurance, who is going to take care of all these people? I’ve heard that even if all the doctors produced by med schools in the next ten years were to graduate now there still wouldn’t be enough primary care physicians to meet the needs of this plan.
Obama is also going to restrict access to specialists in order to keep costs down. BAD IDEA
Man that’s nicely biased. Did you get any information from sources other than Obama’s press releases?
Nick
What is it going to cost? Your Life!!!!
This will put the GOVERNMENT in control of your and your families health care. Your treatment is not guaranteed or timely. Why do so many wealthy foreigners (from countries with government healthcare) come to America for treatment. Because they can get better treatment in the United States than they can from their own countries health care.
My father has esophageal cancer and under this program he would have to wait (possibly killing him) or possibly not get treatment because he wouldn’t be the cost effective choice for treatment.
My daughter was born with a spinal deformity. Had she not received excellent care covered by my insurance company, she could have been paralyzed for life, instead she is a healthy normal 2 year old playing with all the other kids. The treatment covered under insurance was done by one of the top Doctors in the World. (I’m not by any means wealthy)
What they conveniently forget to tell many people of the 50 million uninsured, most of those are BY CHOICE. Those who are young and feel don’t need it, don’t get it and many also decide that their plasma TV is more important than health care.
You want cost effective health care, stop those who aren’t citizens from using our services (except in life, limb, or sight) without payment. Stop suing every doctor when things go wrong (except in gross negligence). Work with insurance companies to receive lower cost, same quality health treatments.
One example is an MRI. You can go to one hospital and it costs $9,000 for an MRI or you can go to a closer and more convenient hospital and get an MRI for $3,000. We call our insurance company and ask them were we can get the cheapest treatment before we have it done. Sometimes this requires us to get a referral or prescription from the doctor. We did this after paying for 10% of that $9,000 MRI and my wife called and they informed us that they keep stats on all hospitals and willing to inform us of the cheapest places covered under our policy. They love it because they make more profit, we have lower co-pay (10%) and overall it’s a win-win situation. Stop letting these hospitals, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies from emptying your pockets.
Government Health Care is not the answer. The idea that the rich will pay for health care is ’stupid’. It will push the rich who care about their money to find loop holes in our outside this country. Look at the public school system. Where do the rich who care about education send their children? Boy the government involvement really improved that system.
What a disappointingly biased article.
“Who is opposing the present version of the legislation?” Those crazy Republicans and those evil rich people!
How about the American taxpayer who doesn’t want yet another unconstitutional entitlement program that will drive our nation’s economy further into the dumpster? Social Security and Medicaid are already abused systems that are well on our way to bankruptcy.
How about the 1000 page bill that NO ONE has read, but everyone is rushing to ram through the system to get it passed? All in the interest of a program that wouldn’t begin until 2013? Apparently it’s not fashionable to read what we pass any more.
How about the fact that this bill pretty much eliminates the consumer’s option to buy private insurance? How about the fact that I don’t believe the government can make better decisions about my family’s health care than I can?
I, along with the majority of people I know, am a middle-class, hard-working citizen who is tired of the government trying to take care of me. Let me keep more of my own money to pay for my own health care and be charitable to others. Loosen burdensome regulation to allow state-to-state competition and let the insurance companies fight to the death over my business. It won’t cost the taxpayers a dime.
What an irresponsibly biased article. I just can’t believe I would see something like this from Mint.
Don’t forget about Libertarians, we don’t want this shit because it doesn’t work.
This article is absolutely rubbish. I figured this would be as politically neutral as possible. Maybe I should cancel my Mint account
Well…I used to like Mint.com, but this piece (which was also mailed to me) has made me decide to leave mint.com. This article is obviously biased, I don’t see why you (mint.com) feel the need to write stuff like this; what does this have to do with your core business. Your service was cool. Bye.
the correct url is
http://www.healthreform.gov/
All Americans would be required to buy the government subsidy because they would make sure the out of pocket was way more expensive than government subsidy which in the long run would probably kill you through lack of service.
New health care exchange, isnt that like saying lets all get together and set prices?
You can keep your employers plan, NO YOU CANT, read the bill, at best your employers plan is going to be the government’s plan.
No premiums can not be raised for pre-existing conditions so we will just charge the same for everyone, so even if you dont have pre-existing we will cahrge you as if you do, after all eventually you will have a pre-existing condition right.
It wont add to the budget deficit, you are creating a whole new branch of government, BULL SHIT, dont sit there and tell me it wont cost us more, we all loose with this crap.
You charge the wealthy for this stupid plan they just move their industry out of the country, I would. This is B.S. You people better wake up and take this country back or we all loose. By the way, if yo wonder if I am wealthy, I make 25k a year and I dont want this crap.
You need to suck another TRILLION dollars out of the American public, yet your article states the “insured will no longer be footing the bill for the uninsured.”
The reality is that the same people will be footing the bill for the other same people. We just can’t call them uninsured anymore, but they’re the SAME people.
The working class pays for most expenses of those who choose not to work. This just formalizes the agreement even more in a perfect “to each according to his means” kind of way.
If you decrease the barrier to entry (to nothing) of the availability of health care, you will increase demand on the health care system.
At the same time, because the government would dictate the prices each procedure and medication will cost, there will be no competition among carriers because private carriers can not compete with the government. Private insurance will die. And that is assuming that any one will not switch to the public option because it will be cheaper. This will eradicate the health insurance industry and the hundreds of thousands of jobs it provides.
Finally, since doctors, nurses and hospitals will get less money per patient, the incentive for people to pursue careers in medical fields will drop. Also, hospitals will not have incentive to buy cutting edge (read: expensive) equipment, so the quality of care will drop.
Put this all together: drastic increase in demand + drop in supply = worse and/or less care for everyone.
The only way to keep the system afloat is to RATION CARE. Seniors will take the brunt of this because they need a lot of, expensive, care.
I will not condemn seniors to an early death. Nor will I permit the destruction of the best health CARE in the world. The SYSTEM needs serious reform — this is not it.
Republicans care about more than how things affect the rich, and I will not be using mint anymore as you have shown your hand and alienated your consumers.
This liberally biased piece doesn’t belong here. I’m quite disappointed that Mint chose to use a finance blog to push someones’ political agenda. This makes me want to go use Yodlee or something else…
I really glad to see a good number of voters against this. There are real problems in America, like the economy!
Where’s this bill you are talking about?
I haven’t heard of it… I have heard of this 1000 page bill that says the exact opposite of what you say…
Perhaps you should read some actual proposed legislation before you go making off of the wall articles about some legislation that doesn’t exist….
Oh, and about other countries health care systems? I don’t want it. I don’t want to have to wait 3 months to a year to get a test (Canada, Britain, others…) I don’t want to be told, your not important enough/too old/too young… just go and die.
If you like these other systems so much… LEAVE THE COUNTRY … WE DON’T NEED YOU, and WE DON’T WANT YOU TRYING TO KILL US. Because that is exactly what you are trying to do by supporting this legislation.
It always astonishes me that people freak out about things that will benefit them, such as worker safety, minimum wages, airline safety regulations, safe highways, food standards, water purity standards and safe cars. All of these things were provided by government initiatives and those citizens who fought to get these things in place. They didn’t come from big business.
What the people also conveniently forget is that until Nixon (a Republican’s Republican) gave the green light to private insurance companies to fund and literally take over health care in the 1970s, the US had a federal public health care system that was flawed, yet few people went bankrupt due to health care costs.
Recent figures demonstrate that around 95% of personal bankruptcies in the US are a direct result of health care costs, including seemingly routine surgeries.
Hospitals can refuse to treat patients with the wrong type of coverage, and over-charge for very inexpensive disposables like common tissues (I am talking about “hand-held sneeze supression devices” aka Kleenex that you pay $20+ a box for during your stay many hospitals). Not to mention how patients pay for the mistakes that are often made by under-trained, over-worked and tired staff who are often the targets of cut-backs and the constant demands of HMOs to perform at peak levels.
These are built into the system to maximize profit at the expense of the patients, who often did not ask to get ill or injured in the first place.
HMOs and private insurers in the US have driven up the costs of a basic human need so that they can line their pockets with enormous amounts of cash. And their main ally is big pharmaceutical companies, who freely over-charge whenever they have captive clients, such as seniors.
Given the chance, I’m sure that most US citizens would accept change that would turn the tide against the greed that drives their health system. I’m also sure that big business will whine and complain as they always do whenever they imagine their profits will be reduced for the good of society.
Stop whining on behalf big business on this important issue, people, and get on with it. Much of the rest of the developed world sees the US health system as a big mess, ready to be cleaned up. Thats what the current administration is courageously trying to do against huge opposition.
@RRWest
First off, having an opposing argument in a debate isn’t called ‘whining’, its called debate.
I think most people acknowledge that our current system is very inefficient. But nobody has clearly defined how the government taking control of all this is going to make it magically efficient. If you can explain that to me, I would like to hear it!
HMOs are a huge reason that we are in this mess and why health care costs are so high – and we have the government to thank for forcing that on us. This is another example of the government “coming to save us” from a problem THEY created.
I must also correct you: no one here is “whining” on behalf of big business, they can take care of themselves. The main objection to this health care legislation is the asinine attempt to tax the hell out of one group of people, remove freedom of choice from another, and lower the quality of health care for everyone. All this just to be able to say “at least everyone is covered”. Sure, everyone is covered, but the quality of health care will dwindle.
This is government coercion, plain and simple. Every American should be appalled by this type of legislation. There is a reason people like John Conyers want this legislation rammed through as fast as possible without anyone reading it: no one in their right mind would implement something this awful. He even out right says so: http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=GduzuzqGqG
What bothers me most about this article is..
What will happen to my doctor?
You can still go to them, and they’ll still be living large in the wealthiest zip codes in your locale.
Honestly, most doctors are not as rich as everyone thinks they are. Most physicians don’t come from the wealthiest families where their parents pay for everything. Most come from standard middle income families. That means that they have to take out a $200,000 loan for their education, basically another mortgage.
Most medical school loans have a 30 year term and the earliest a doctor can become a doctor (after all the education) is 29 years old. So they pay their school loans, plus all their other living expenses. They are 59 years old. That means they only have a few years of making good money before they retire.
I’m not saying doctors are poor, but they sure aren’t as rich as everyone thinks they are. Ask your family practice doctor if it was worth all the time and money to be a doctor. If they answer honestly, they would say they should have chose another profession.
I guess all these people leaving negative comments have ALWAYS had health care. Hope you don’t lose your job and have a hard time finding a new one.
Why does everything in this country have to make a profit? No profit should be made helping sick people. Ever!
Gee, can this article be more bias? I am very disappointed in Mint.com running this trash. America has the best health care in the world that’s why “wealthy” people around the world come to us for major health issues. The reason is because it’s ran on a Capitalism versus Socialism. I’m glad people are waking up. Stop this madness.
I’m a conservative and didn’t vote for Obama, but I guess I’m missing what the big fuss is over from some of you.
a. The author does not advocate for Obama’s reform plan at all. In fact, he/she states that it is fuzzy in its details at best.
b. As a conservative Republican, I acknowledge that we need health care reform. How is health care reform bad? This plan should reduce your insurance premiums and doesn’t offer a single payer option. Radical, babbling idiots like you make our party look bad. Do more homework.
c. This is a blog. If you want 100% cut down middle, unbiased journalism…. well you’re certainly not going to find it here, and I challenge you to find it anywhere. Opinions of individual bloggers has nothing to do with the great service that mint.com offers.
“Nothing. You can still go to them, and they’ll still be living large in the wealthiest zip codes in your locale.”
Hahaha.
Sure, when you are 55, your hair is gray, and your kids (if you had time to have any) are grown up and in college.
Until then, you are paying back 300k+ in med school debt and working 80 hours a week, all while praying that by the time you actually have a practice of your own medicare will still pay you for providing medical care.
I love this conversation. In particular, I want to single out Aaron Forgue’s comment, quoted here:
“Here is an analogy to help understand this: Assume you were playing monopoly and were having the best game of your life. You were in complete control of the board and had no reason to worry about losing to any of your opponents.”
This is just SO awesome. Holy shit. Okay, firstly:
1) This is life. No one wins and no one loses. Everyone dies in the end and, unlike the 1935 board game Monopoly, you don’t “win” by fucking over everyone and snatching up all the money in the little piggy bank.
Let me be clearer: Your analogy, to prove your great oligarchical point, is that in a board game DESIGNED around the concept of fucking over your opponents and establishing a thoroughly punitive economic system (buying all real estate on the board) is your denouement on why single payer health care is a bad idea? Are you fucking serious? Yeah, let’s forget the fact that Monopoly (the board game, just so we’re clear here) doesn’t have to worry about worker strikes, poverty lines, >90% bankruptcy due to health care costs. No, the thing to worry about is I’M WINNING THE BOARD GAME AND SOMEONE IS STEALING MY VICTORY.
This is just… god, it’s so good! I make a ridiculous, obscene amount of money in my personal life. I mean, it’s just obscene and I recognize that. I’m not trying to win some sort of life game, either. And I’m lucky enough to have friends who have life-or-death medical conditions and who are routinely denied coverage. I have a friend with two separate kind of cancers, who works 60 hour work weeks, and is denied coverage on her procedures. So she has to take medical credit cards to pay off the surgeries she needs to live. And I make probably, on order, 20x what she makes. But it’s okay, because I’m winning Monopoly! Maybe she’ll draw a Get Out of Jail Free card, so that’d be cool.
That’s what this boils down to. Now, you’re going to say, “oh the Monopoly thing was just an analogy”. That’s my point: It’s an analogy for your entire point. Your point is, “hey, I have a lot of money and if some people get fucked then who cares because I worked hard for my money!” and you know what? I get it. I worked hard for my money too. My Ferrari thanks you for your concern. But you know what else? I realize that hey, maybe there are people out there who really DO need help and who our for-profit-fuck-the-humanity system may not be catering to. And maybe, hey, I deserve to be taxed a little bit more so that people like my friend, one of the most spectacular people I’ve ever met, can live just a little bit longer.
But no, that Park Ave. board spot looks awfully inviting. Fuck taxes, I want my shoe piece to get around the board one more time.
Did you give your friend any money to help with her medical expenses?
Mint, you’re losing credibility with stuff like this.
Stick to explaining what the government is doing with actual money (The Trillion Dollar video was great!), not interpreting legislation that is completely changed.
The article is biased but it is far from magical communist propaganda. Besides, it’s just an online blog.
I’m a moderate and think we should all be taxed higher to provide a base level of health care for our fellow citizens. I’m a rather poor graduate without insurance, but I don’t think my health should be a burden placed on those that make much more money than me; what tax-dollars go towards this should be shared by all of us.
I agree with those previous posters who comment that many opposed to this have never been at the pointy end of the health-care stick. I don’t see any reason why a country shouldn’t provide an option of at least partially socialized health-care for it’s citizens. It would mostly benefit the poor or disadvantaged and the more of those that can go to work every day the more money the wealthy who employ them would make. We all benefit from shared health and compassion, and we all suffer when the wealthy and powerful stop seeing how those assets are directly tied to those multitudes beneath them that make the system possible that allows them to profit.
I will never support a communist state, but what good is in capitalism or democracy if it doesn’t yield higher humane benefit for us all? A partially socialized system could help many of us who work hard, and are intelligent and strong, but who at one time lack the finances to have realistically beneficial health care.
Health care, work, and other benefits are not rights, but that doesn’t mean that we all shouldn’t feel a responsibility for the health and well-being of our neighbors and fellow citizens.
It says a great deal about the recent publicity push against healthcare reform that so many commenters are claiming this article is so strongly biased or that they are leaving Mint forever.The bias, to me, seems to be in the eyes of the beholder.
As the article states, Republicans oppose taxes on the wealthy. This is not a biased opinion, it’s a fact that has much evidence to back it up. In fact, it’s at the heart of the argument many commenters are making: they oppose taxes on the wealthy because they believe it to be unfair. Mint did not comment on whether or not this is fair, they did. It should come as no surprise that Republicans oppose universal healthcare as it (in its current incarnations)
a.must contain a tax to exist without further burdening the deficit and
b. must contain some kind of mandate, a function that can only be played by either the market or the government.
Since Republicans generally oppose taxing to fund large government programs, the mere suggestion of Universal Healthcare is something they would naturally oppose. From a Republican point of view, the only way to report on Universal Healthcare without a bias is to report on the dangers or risks of large government programs or the injustice of taxing a small percent of the population. This would, of course, be inherently biased reporting.
What is this drivel? As popular as it is right now to hate those with money, since when is being successful a crime?
A large majority of wealthy Americans got where they are by hard work or innovative spirit. In short, they’ve earned their keep. It’s not their responsibility to provide for others. As much as the Liberals pounding keyboards at Mint may hate that fact, that’s as American as apple pie.
Just to keep this thing Minty “A Visual Aid for Health Care reform”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrwdZ2bX-oc
Most of the “rich people” I know (I know a few). Did not get wealthy buying $1000 bottles of wine nor do they even own one. Most of the rich people I know are very smart with money and don’t mind shopping at Wal*Mart. It’s a shame you have the stereotypical view of rich people which is funny coming from the left. I thought all of “you” were tolerant?
The healthcare deform that the Obama adminsitration will destroy the quality of healthcare we have in America. Everyone can now have healthcare as they cannot be turned away from a hospital.
• A preexisting condition that requires $1,000,000 a year in medication is an unjust burden to spread across everyone.
• The US cannot financially afford the Obama plan.
• Obama lies about his plan. Read the bill, see his videos on YouTube, that prove he is trying for single payer aka Gov health plan only reform.
• People will die because of the Obama plan.
• Healthcare costs would skyrocket
• Healthcare quality would sink
• Newsflash, it takes many years of going to school to be a doctor. They deserve to make a good wage.
• No one will benefit from the the Obama plan
• Some people prefer to buy a big screen TV or have the latest car instead of spending $100/month of individual health insurance
The only thing in America that needs serious reform is the government. Impeach the incompetent Obama.
All doctors should be on a salary, not working on a fee-for-service basis.
what I want to know is…will the government employees, including the Congressman and Senators have to live with the same health care reform system that the rest of us will have imposed on us, probably not, but they should have to. They are paid well for their participation in our government administration but it is a job and nothing more. I hate this do as I say not as I do mentality. Until only several years ago the US Government administered the required retirement system that we all pay into, but federal employees didn’t even participate in it. I’ve seen first hand how the government operates and I really don’t want the government making health decisions for me. We all know our health care system needs reformed. I don’t know what the answer is but maybe the government could start by somehow controlling medical costs so people could afford insurance. I certainly don’t think jumping into a dramactically revised system that can never change back is the first choice.
MINT.COM, I absolutely love your money management web site, but this garbage just made you go down many notches in my book.
By reading postings everywhere, it’s clear that many democrats are blindly pushing the bill without virtually no knowledge of its facts, simply continuing the ‘we hate Bush’ theme from the campaign. This is very sad.
I voted for Obama, but now believe that he and his entire administration is pushing for a very different America, one in which the government is all controlling and good, and all businesses are evil and bad. That will kill America as we know it.
I feel tricked by him.
I think the argument of socialized medicine is stupid we have managed healthcare with medicare and state funded programs and everyone that is of age for medicare and a recipint plus goverment plans such as congress and senate inssurance programs medicade state programs should all be taken away lets see how many recipents of these programs are willing to give up there medical. If this is good for these people then it should be good for all. We need reform and in the long run we can help our people in America we spend trillions overseas and the war in Iraq anyone know how much that cost and how much better all us everyday people are today because of the outcome? we should reform healthcare and quit being told by inssurance companys what is right for us they have a big dog in this fight and spend millions a day spreading crap that is not true distraction is in there favor.
Everyone that is not for reform should give up there medicare if they are on it . Maybe we should pass a resolution to do that you think that the bus’s would be full from all over with mad as hell people saying don’t take my socialized goverment regulated inssurance. Lot’s complain but I do not think there would be to many people willing to give it up. Think about less emergency room visits from uninsured that cost insured people now in there rates, How about well care with some prvention saves lives and money
for our people in America we are spending money anyway let’s do something for our people. Think about savings to companies with skyrocketing preiums and it would help out with workers comp. claims
Go to fact check listen to what the President is saying then form a opinion scare tactics are crazy there is no way things can stay the same . There is good reform and people have to think for themselves we as people of this country can reform anything if we want with out hurting things it is with in our power but people on both sides with money to loose will come after you there can be reform that is meaningful and not watered down or the sky is falling mentality