Comments on: Spending Beyond Our Means: US Trade Balance By Decade http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/ The blog of the free, simple personal finance solution. Track all your spending automatically, find the best deals, save more money. And save the world. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:46:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Rider I http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-47579 Rider I Fri, 09 Apr 2010 05:58:12 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-47579 Ok trading is good. However at the point we trade with SOE's or State owned enterprises with China who use their countries taxes to subsidize their industries and create a better place for their indiviudal owned industries I see a problem. The US and Canada can have a go at it with close balances, Mexico we are in debt to but China since we have been trading with them we have never had a surplus of trade with China. It has been all strategic trading done by China. Ok trading is good. However at the point we trade with SOE’s or State owned enterprises with China who use their countries taxes to subsidize their industries and create a better place for their indiviudal owned industries I see a problem.
The US and Canada can have a go at it with close balances, Mexico we are in debt to but China since we have been trading with them we have never had a surplus of trade with China. It has been all strategic trading done by China. ]]> By: staffaction http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45850 staffaction Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:16:50 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45850 Ross, This number is absolutely meaningless. Perhaps the most significant thing it's showing us is that the U.S. is becoming much more of a knowledge and service economy than a goods producing country. What is the goal here? A equal numbers? A balanced "balance of trade"? A trade surplus? If we have a trade surplus does that mean other countries have a trade deficit and if so is that bad for them? Think of a few of the stores you shop at. Perhaps Wal-Mart. You have a huge trade deficit with them! I bet you haven't given them a single dollar's worth of tangible product. No, you only give them money for their products. Nor does the trade deficit have anything to do with indicating our economic condition. You point back to 1975 with Gerald Ford when we had a surplus. Oh really, want to go back to 1975? Ford and Carter were some of the worst presidents our country has had in terms of economic policies. Something tells me sky-rocketing interest rates, high unemployment, and skyrocketing oil prices make the 1970's not so rosy. If you want to see if Americans are spending beyond their means look not at the "trade deficit" (it doesn't tell you anything about spending anyway only tangible goods that cross arbitrary political borders) but rather at things like credit reports, or the amount of debt people are in vs. savings. I hope analysis on your blog will stop focusing on straw men, with little understanding of economic thinking. Ross, This number is absolutely meaningless. Perhaps the most significant thing it’s showing us is that the U.S. is becoming much more of a knowledge and service economy than a goods producing country.

What is the goal here? A equal numbers? A balanced “balance of trade”? A trade surplus? If we have a trade surplus does that mean other countries have a trade deficit and if so is that bad for them?

Think of a few of the stores you shop at. Perhaps Wal-Mart. You have a huge trade deficit with them! I bet you haven’t given them a single dollar’s worth of tangible product. No, you only give them money for their products.

Nor does the trade deficit have anything to do with indicating our economic condition. You point back to 1975 with Gerald Ford when we had a surplus. Oh really, want to go back to 1975? Ford and Carter were some of the worst presidents our country has had in terms of economic policies. Something tells me sky-rocketing interest rates, high unemployment, and skyrocketing oil prices make the 1970′s not so rosy.

If you want to see if Americans are spending beyond their means look not at the “trade deficit” (it doesn’t tell you anything about spending anyway only tangible goods that cross arbitrary political borders) but rather at things like credit reports, or the amount of debt people are in vs. savings.

I hope analysis on your blog will stop focusing on straw men, with little understanding of economic thinking.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45765 Jonathan Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:29:02 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45765 Canadian Exports To USA Petroleum products …US$63.7 billion (21% of Canada to U.S. exports, up 6% from 2005) Passenger cars … $36.6 billion (12.5%, up 1.5%) Car parts & accessories … $15.6 billion (5.1%, down 2.5%) Complete & assembled cars … $12.2 billion (4%, down 2.3%) Aluminum … $7.7 billion (2.5%, up 36.1%) Lumber … $6.6 billion (2.2%, down 8.9%) Finishing materials (e.g. shingles, wallboard) … $5.9 billion (2.0%, down 10.7%) Plastics … $5.8 billion (1.9%, up 7.9%) Telecommunications … $4 billion (1.3%, down 0.7%) Engines & parts … $3.98 billion (1.3%, down 8.6%) Also Medicinal, dental & pharmaceutical preparations … $3.5 billion (up 43.5%) Other things Garage door openers, lawn mowers, high end appliances - stoves, dishwashers, washing machines Canadian Exports To USA

Petroleum products …US$63.7 billion (21% of Canada to U.S. exports, up 6% from 2005)
Passenger cars … $36.6 billion (12.5%, up 1.5%)
Car parts & accessories … $15.6 billion (5.1%, down 2.5%)
Complete & assembled cars … $12.2 billion (4%, down 2.3%)
Aluminum … $7.7 billion (2.5%, up 36.1%)
Lumber … $6.6 billion (2.2%, down 8.9%)
Finishing materials (e.g. shingles, wallboard) … $5.9 billion (2.0%, down 10.7%)
Plastics … $5.8 billion (1.9%, up 7.9%)
Telecommunications … $4 billion (1.3%, down 0.7%)
Engines & parts … $3.98 billion (1.3%, down 8.6%)

Also
Medicinal, dental & pharmaceutical preparations … $3.5 billion (up 43.5%)

Other things
Garage door openers, lawn mowers, high end appliances – stoves, dishwashers, washing machines

]]> By: Jared http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45763 Jared Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:49:06 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45763 Presenting the raw dollar amounts like this is deceptive (though, it looks more dramatic). When you look at the ratio between imports and exports instead of the raw dollar amounts, you find only a very small change from 0.74 to 0.72 between 2000 to 2008. Charting this ratio over time would be much more accurate and useful since inflation is accounted for. Your chart is currently very deceiving - I would expect higher quality analysis from the people who made my favorite online financial tracking tool. Presenting the raw dollar amounts like this is deceptive (though, it looks more dramatic).

When you look at the ratio between imports and exports instead of the raw dollar amounts, you find only a very small change from 0.74 to 0.72 between 2000 to 2008.

Charting this ratio over time would be much more accurate and useful since inflation is accounted for. Your chart is currently very deceiving – I would expect higher quality analysis from the people who made my favorite online financial tracking tool.

]]> By: Lee http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45755 Lee Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:51:44 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45755 To the people who are amazed that we import more from Canada than China, I think I have an explanation. It seems to me that more of what you see stamped with "made in _____" says China than Canada, but more of what you use on a day to day basis comes from Canada. Lumber or oil doesnt say made in _______ on it. DVD players do, though. Simply put - Consumer goods = China Natrual resources = Canada What you NOTICE = Goods from China To the people who are amazed that we import more from Canada than China, I think I have an explanation.

It seems to me that more of what you see stamped with “made in _____” says China than Canada, but more of what you use on a day to day basis comes from Canada. Lumber or oil doesnt say made in _______ on it. DVD players do, though.

Simply put – Consumer goods = China
Natrual resources = Canada
What you NOTICE = Goods from China

]]> By: Jon Earl http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45733 Jon Earl Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:52:31 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45733 Timber, Water, Electricity, Natural Gas, Oil, etc..... Timber, Water, Electricity, Natural Gas, Oil, etc….. ]]> By: X http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45732 X Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:37:25 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45732 More imports from Canada then China?! More imports from Canada then China?! ]]> By: Gatz http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45726 Gatz Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:35:02 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45726 Canada supplies us with a large amount of cheap Pharmaceuticals Canada supplies us with a large amount of cheap Pharmaceuticals ]]> By: Kyle http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45724 Kyle Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:09:56 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45724 To the person who questioned what you import from Canada? A lot of things actually, you hit the nail on the head with oil, you purchase more oil from us than Saudi Arabia. I know especially in Ontario, but also around the country, car parts and assembled cars from companies like Ford, GM, Toyota etc. Of course the raw materials, lumber, aluminum. We are a bigger trading partner than you think, treat us better! :D To the person who questioned what you import from Canada? A lot of things actually, you hit the nail on the head with oil, you purchase more oil from us than Saudi Arabia. I know especially in Ontario, but also around the country, car parts and assembled cars from companies like Ford, GM, Toyota etc. Of course the raw materials, lumber, aluminum. We are a bigger trading partner than you think, treat us better! :D ]]> By: Ian http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/spending-beyond-our-means-us-trade-balance-by-decade/comment-page-1/#comment-45715 Ian Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:04:04 +0000 http://www.mint.com/blog/?p=8361#comment-45715 I love how the 'fiscal conservative' Republicans caused so much of the deficit during the 80s-early 90s and 2000s. Useless. I love how the ‘fiscal conservative’ Republicans caused so much of the deficit during the 80s-early 90s and 2000s. Useless. ]]>